Testing CLD-99 vs DVL-91 vs Japanese CLD-R7G

[Kurtis Bahr]

I put a Japanese CLD-R7G back together to test against the CLD-99 and
DVL-91. I connected them to my NTSC Pioneer RPTV to check sharpness of the
picture, I did not check color purity. I went in thinking the R7G would test
equal the 91. Also my Pioneer RPTV performs processing on composite inputs
to make them sharper and the S9/X9 in HR mode so far have been the only LD
players to match my RPTV's processing. ALL tests were performed with DVNR
and 3D processing OFF. I'm testing the base design here.

The CLD-99 was the same as all others I've seen, good detail but the S-Video
output no matter where I set the sharpness on the 99 unit cannot touch what
my RPTV does.

The DVL-91 as I expected the composite output looked like the CLD-D604, not
as detailed as the CLD-99, softer. The S-Video Output surprised me, it
sharpened up the picture and was better than the CLD-99 for sharpness. Only
problem is that the 91 does not have the Adaptive filter so it does not
process NTSC artifacts like the 99/R7G/S9/X9.

The Japanese CLD-R7G totally surprised me. Composite picture sharper than
the CLD-99. The S-Video is now the second filter I've seen to sharpen the
picture like the S9/X9 filter, it was better than the 99 and 91. Plus this
one is Adaptive. I've only seen this one R7G but it impressed me over what I
thought it would have done. I still prefer the S9 as it has more internal
adjustments to fine tune the unit but from my first look I'd buy the R7G
over the CLD-99 if I didn't want to pay for the LD-S9.

I will sometime have to compare the R7G to my X9.

Again, this was a sharpness test and background noise was equal. ALL test
were performed with DVNR and 3D Processing OFF.

Kurtis

[Joshua Zyber]

Post by Kurtis Bahr
The Japanese CLD-R7G totally surprised me. Composite picture sharper
than the CLD-99. The S-Video is now the second filter I've seen to
sharpen the picture like the S9/X9 filter, it was better than the 99
and 91. Plus this one is Adaptive. I've only seen this one R7G but it
impressed me over what I thought it would have done. I still prefer
the S9 as it has more internal adjustments to fine tune the unit but
from my first look I'd buy the R7G over the CLD-99 if I didn't want to
pay for the LD-S9.

Any CLV streaking on this player?

[Kurtis Bahr]

Forgot to add that, it has the same streaking as in the 704/99/S9. The best
unit to eliminate streaking is still the HLD-X9

Kurtis

Post by Joshua Zyber

Post by Kurtis Bahr
The Japanese CLD-R7G totally surprised me. Composite picture sharper than
the CLD-99. The S-Video is now the second filter I've seen to sharpen the
picture like the S9/X9 filter, it was better than the 99 and 91. Plus
this one is Adaptive. I've only seen this one R7G but it impressed me
over what I thought it would have done. I still prefer the S9 as it has
more internal adjustments to fine tune the unit but from my first look
I'd buy the R7G over the CLD-99 if I didn't want to pay for the LD-S9.

Any CLV streaking on this player?

[Nicolas Santini]

Post by Joshua Zyber
Any CLV streaking on this player?

My own tests, made with Eraserhead (chapter 4) as suggested by Josh,
gave streaking on the R7G to be about 1/3rd what is was on an S9,
while an X9 had about none. I was able to run simultaneously all 3
decks with 3 copies of that disc. My display is an old analog Sony
HDTV.

Another advantage of the R7G over the S9 is the CAV field freeze
capability, as reported in an earlier thread.

My permanent setup is X9 + R7G. The R7G's fast operation and front
plate buttons make it a great machine for testing LDs. Moreover, these
two decks have common exterior design (also shared with Pioneer's
older DVD decks) and go well together, while the S9 looks odd imho.

Nicolas

[Joshua Zyber]

Post by Nicolas Santini
My own tests, made with Eraserhead (chapter 4) as suggested by Josh,
gave streaking on the R7G to be about 1/3rd what is was on an S9,
while an X9 had about none. I was able to run simultaneously all 3
decks with 3 copies of that disc. My display is an old analog Sony
HDTV.

How would you compare the sharpness of the three players on your
display, Nicolas?

[Steve Grauman]

Post by Kurtis Bahr
Also my Pioneer RPTV performs processing on composite inputs
to make them sharper and the S9/X9 in HR mode so far have been the only LD
players to match my RPTV's processing.

That's probably because:
1. The S9 and X9 have the same comb filter and
2. Your Pioneer RPTV probably uses the same comb filter that's in the S9 and
X9, and may well also share some other basic video hardware.

Post by Kurtis Bahr
The CLD-99 was the same as all others I've seen, good detail but the S-Video
output no matter where I set the sharpness on the 99 unit cannot touch what
my RPTV does.

The CLD-99 was the only North American player I know of to use a 3D Comb
Filter. Compared to the s-video quality of the CLD-D704/CLD-79 on which the 99
is based, there would be a noticeable difference. However, the X9 and S9 had
the top-spec comb filter, several steps better than the one in the 99, which is
most likely what your RPTV also has. This accounts for that observation.

Post by Kurtis Bahr
The DVL-91 as I expected the composite output looked like the CLD-D604, not
as detailed as the CLD-99, softer.

How did video noise compare between the 2 players?

Post by Kurtis Bahr
The S-Video Output surprised me, it
sharpened up the picture and was better than the CLD-99 for sharpness.

This interests/surprises me. It was my understanding that the 99 had the best
comb filter of any North American player. And it is based on the CLD-D704 which
has a sharp picture.

Post by Kurtis Bahr
The Japanese CLD-R7G totally surprised me. Composite picture sharper than
the CLD-99.

The CLD-R7G had the "middle grade" filter, one step better than the 99's but
not as good as the X9/S9 filter. How did noise levels compare?

Post by Kurtis Bahr
I still prefer the S9 as it has more internal
adjustments to fine tune the unit but from my first look I'd buy the R7G
over the CLD-99 if I didn't want to pay for the LD-S9.

The CLD-R7G is sort of the entry point for enthusiasts wanting a Japanese unit
and/or an upgrade from the domestic units avaliable here in the U.S. It, as per
your tests, can't quite match the performance of the S9 or X9 but it's
certainly a step-up from the CLD-99 with it's improved overall hardware and
better comb filter. In fact, I'd ventuire to say that a serious enthusiast
would skip the 99 all togethor, going straight from the CLD-97 to the CLD-R7G.
Steve Grauman

[Kurtis Bahr]

Yes, I think everyone here knows the S9 and X9 have the same 3D Adaptive
filter. The CLD-99 was the only US release of a 3D Adaptive filter and I
have always considered it not worth the extra money unless dot crawl drives
you nuts, many disagree with me here and that is OK. Pioneer never released
a US LD player with the better Adaptive filters. The 99 and R7G had about
the same noise levels, non down to the level of the CLD-97 or LD-S2.

My Pioneer analog RPTV is a 1988 model. It's comb filter was developed
years before the ones in the 99/S9/X9. Extremely good for it's time and
still extremely good by today's standard.

Kurtis

Post by Steve Grauman

Post by Kurtis Bahr
Also my Pioneer RPTV performs processing on composite inputs
to make them sharper and the S9/X9 in HR mode so far have been the only LD
players to match my RPTV's processing.

1. The S9 and X9 have the same comb filter and
2. Your Pioneer RPTV probably uses the same comb filter that's in the S9 and
X9, and may well also share some other basic video hardware.

Post by Kurtis Bahr
The CLD-99 was the same as all others I've seen, good detail but the S-Video
output no matter where I set the sharpness on the 99 unit cannot touch what
my RPTV does.

The CLD-99 was the only North American player I know of to use a 3D Comb
Filter. Compared to the s-video quality of the CLD-D704/CLD-79 on which the 99
is based, there would be a noticeable difference. However, the X9 and S9 had
the top-spec comb filter, several steps better than the one in the 99, which is
most likely what your RPTV also has. This accounts for that observation.

Post by Kurtis Bahr
The DVL-91 as I expected the composite output looked like the CLD-D604, not
as detailed as the CLD-99, softer.

How did video noise compare between the 2 players?

Post by Kurtis Bahr
The S-Video Output surprised me, it
sharpened up the picture and was better than the CLD-99 for sharpness.

This interests/surprises me. It was my understanding that the 99 had the best
comb filter of any North American player. And it is based on the CLD-D704 which
has a sharp picture.

Post by Kurtis Bahr
The Japanese CLD-R7G totally surprised me. Composite picture sharper than
the CLD-99.

The CLD-R7G had the "middle grade" filter, one step better than the 99's but
not as good as the X9/S9 filter. How did noise levels compare?

Post by Kurtis Bahr
I still prefer the S9 as it has more internal
adjustments to fine tune the unit but from my first look I'd buy the R7G
over the CLD-99 if I didn't want to pay for the LD-S9.

The CLD-R7G is sort of the entry point for enthusiasts wanting a Japanese unit
and/or an upgrade from the domestic units avaliable here in the U.S. It, as per
your tests, can't quite match the performance of the S9 or X9 but it's
certainly a step-up from the CLD-99 with it's improved overall hardware and
better comb filter. In fact, I'd ventuire to say that a serious enthusiast
would skip the 99 all togethor, going straight from the CLD-97 to the CLD-R7G.
Steve Grauman

[Nicolas Santini]

Post by Steve Grauman
The CLD-R7G had the "middle grade" filter, one step better than the 99's but
not as good as the X9/S9 filter. How did noise levels compare?
Steve Grauman

I don't know how you can state that. You probably saw my post listing
all comb filters in Japanese recent decks, a few months ago. The R7G's
filter is a late iteration of the NEC chip (previous versions found in
X0 and US 99), and as it was also used in the H9, it would suggest
Pioneer considered it to be quite high grade. Hard to say where it
stands compared to the Mitsubishi chip found in S9 and X9, but i would
bet it is much closer the Mitsubishi chip than it is to the older NEC
chips.

Nicolas

[Kurtis Bahr]

This 3rd generation NEC is much better than the 1st generation
implementation in the CLD-99. I did not perform any NTSC artifact
comparisons. That is what you'd have to check.

A straight 3D Digital filter specialize in doing the best job separating the
Y/C signals without creating artifacts. The Adaptive filter is a process
specifically design to look for and reduce NTSC artifacts that get through
the Y/C processing. The amount of Adaptive filtering you select in the
99/R7G/S9/X9 does start at 2D Adaptive and move to full 3D Adaptive. Full
3D will do the best job at trying to eliminate the artifacts but due to the
level of processing you can get digital smear on fast moving objects. You
just have to set it where you are happy.

Kurtis

Post by Nicolas Santini

Post by Steve Grauman
The CLD-R7G had the "middle grade" filter, one step better than the 99's but
not as good as the X9/S9 filter. How did noise levels compare?
Steve Grauman

I don't know how you can state that. You probably saw my post listing
all comb filters in Japanese recent decks, a few months ago. The R7G's
filter is a late iteration of the NEC chip (previous versions found in
X0 and US 99), and as it was also used in the H9, it would suggest
Pioneer considered it to be quite high grade. Hard to say where it
stands compared to the Mitsubishi chip found in S9 and X9, but i would
bet it is much closer the Mitsubishi chip than it is to the older NEC
chips.
Nicolas

[KAMCGANN]

In fact, I'd ventuire to say that a serious enthusiast would skip the 99 all

togethor, going straight from the CLD-97 to the CLD-R7G.>

It is so generous of Steve to share his musings and recommendations about
LD players he has never seen and likely will never see. This is the kind of
stuff that keeps the NG humming along.

In spite of Steve's numbingly worthless keystrokes and rampant
misspellings, I will weigh in regarding my "friend," the CLD-99. I consider the
Pioneer ELITE CLD-99 to be the Rodney Dangerfield of high end LD players. Even
though it was the best equipped US domestically released player and still
offers far better performance and capability than most other LD players, it
does not get any respect. The 99 is no HLD-X9, but the two 99s that I have
owned served me ably, required neither modification nor service, and earned my
respect.

Kraig

[Kevin Hawerchuk]

I think Kraig does have a good point here. Kraig does own two of the
best machines out there- Elite 99 and HLD X9.
What I've learned is that there is no such thing as the "perfect"
player. I have yet to see an HLD X9 or HLD X0, but I've basically seen
every other exotic player. I recently picked up another Runco LJRII out
on ebay. Had one before, but had to sell it as the price offered was too
high to refuse.
To date, the best player that I've personally seen in action was the
Runco LJRII.
It all comes down to tastes. Some players have artifacts that others
don't.
The infamous CLV Color smear, shows up on some monitors with the
D704/Elite 99 models.
The Runco, based on the Panasonic LX 900 doesn't have this issue.
Also, factoring in here is parts replacement. Pioneer still makes
replacement parts, Panasonic doesn't.
With the prices that the Elite 99's are commanding now on ebay, it's a
good time to pick up this unit!
Kevin

[Chris W.]

What kind of comb filter does the Runco have?

[Kevin Hawerchuk]

My GUESS is the Runco has the same 3D digital comb filter that the
Panasonic LX900 has. I don't think it has a 3D adaptive filter, because
there are no comb filter user adjustments on the Runco LJRII.
The player has MSB mods and a bona fide THX certification. I remember
playing the special edition of Star Wars on the Runco and marveling at
the picture quality. Crystal clear, razor sharp, no smearing, no chroma
noise. Of course that particular transfer is fantastic also...
Kevin

[Steve Grauman]

Post by KAMCGANN
It is so generous of Steve to share his musings and recommendations about
LD players he has never seen and likely will never see. This is the kind of
stuff that keeps the NG humming along.

It's really a matter of logic, Kraig. The CLD-99 was really a CLD-D704 with a
more advanced comb filter. However, comb-filter technology has progressed since
that model was inroduced and many higher-end television sets offer internal
filtering superior to that of the 99. Therefore, a "serious" enthusiast would
probably run the 99 via composite output if they were using a high-end monitor,
rendering a picture quality identicle to that of the less expensive and
otherwise equally competant 704. If one owned a CLD-97, which has lower noise
levels than than the 704/99 and also owned a high-end monitor, it simply would
not make sense for a CLD-99 to be the next step. The CLD-R7G or LD-S9 would be
neccesary in order for there to be a noticeable difference in performance. If
you reject this logic, you would need steady grounds to do so. Please check
your footing before attempts at wit, which I must inform you is not your strong
suit.
Steve Grauman

[KAMCGANN]

Post by Steve Grauman

Post by KAMCGANN
It is so generous of Steve to share his musings and recommendations about

LD players he has never seen and likely will never see.>>

Post by Steve Grauman
It's really a matter of logic, Kraig. The CLD-99 was really a CLD-D704 with a

more advanced comb filter.>


Dear Steve
Why do you keep parroting and/or paraphrasing other posters and
reposting common knowledge about LD players? Do you think rattling off model
numbers and the obvious features of particular LD players, that nearly all of
us already know about machines you have never seen, is somehow a contribution
to this group?

Kraig

[Steve Grauman]

Post by KAMCGANN
Why do you keep parroting and/or paraphrasing other posters and
reposting common knowledge about LD players?

I'm not paraprashing anyone or regurgitating anything I was fed. These are
simple facts, common knowledge if you will. Outside of it's more advanced comb
filter the 99 is essentially identicle to a CLD-D704. With most high-end
displays now coming equipped with comb filters BETTER than what the CLD-99 had,
it does not make sense to jump from a 97 with lower noise to a 99. This is a
point you cannot refute, or you would have at least attempted to do so. If what
you want is the look of a 99 and you own a high-end display, you can save
around $200 and get a CLD-D704 which has most of the 99's features anyway, and
run it via composite for an *identicle* picture.

Post by KAMCGANN
is somehow a contribution
to this group?

Your rants and obvious need for argument is not a service to the group Kraig.
And Kurtis seemed to agree with my point - I know you have some respect for
him.
Steve Grauman

[KAMCGANN]

Post by Steve Grauman

Why do you keep parroting and/or paraphrasing other posters and reposting

common knowledge about LD players?>>

Post by Steve Grauman
I'm not paraprashing anyone or regurgitating anything I was fed. These are

simple facts, common knowledge if you will.>

So you admit that the simple facts that you post are common knowledge.
Wonderful. Now explain why you have been reposting them?
You mentioned the 704, 99, and the 97. Which of these units have you
owned or even seen in action?

Post by Steve Grauman
And Kurtis seemed to agree with my point - I know you have some respect for

him.>

Your point? LOL! You merely restated Kurtis' point. Raaaack! Stevie want
a cracker!

Yes, I do have respect for Kurtis. He works with LD players, is
knowledgeable about the technology, and has actually seen the units he speaks
of in action and more. Though I do not entirely agree with all of his
assessments, I consider him a valuable contributor to the group.

What is it about this particular NG that makes you so desperate to be
involved? It is obvious that you are not an LD enthusiast. You come across as
just another punk NG newbie that thinks contribution is measured by quantity of
posts. I can assure you that this is not the case. You have evolved from merely
annoying to foolish and are now apparently enjoying your current status of just
plain pathetic. What do you have in store for us next?

Kraig

[Steve Grauman]

Post by KAMCGANN
Wonderful. Now explain why you have been reposting them?

I made the point that I feel it would be silly to move from a 97 to a 99. This
point may have been made before. However, it was not made in reference to THIS
thread and because it is my personal feeling, wether it be shared by others or
not, I have the right to put it out directly. If you disagree with my point,
that's fine. However, this does not give you the right to forbid me from
posting. Just as you tell others I will tell you: please feel free to ignore my
posts or killfile me if you dislike what I write. I'm not here to make friends
ESPECIALLY with you and am not out to better myself in your eyes. I couldn't
care less what you think of me or what I write, so please stop telling me.

Post by KAMCGANN
You mentioned the 704, 99, and the 97. Which of these units have you
owned or even seen in action?

I have been using a CLD-79 for months which produces a picture *identicle* to
the of the CLD-D704, on which the 79 is based. Seeing as the 99 is ALSO based
on the CLD-D704, I have a pretty damn good idea what it looks like in action.
And since I KNOW that the comb filter in most high end displays are better than
the 99's and that the 97 has lower noise, I can make the assesment I made.

Post by KAMCGANN
Your point? LOL! You merely restated Kurtis' point.

I've never seen Jurtis make that point. That is not an accusation that he has
not done so - it is a simple fact. I do not feel the need to repeat people.

Post by KAMCGANN
It is obvious that you are not an LD enthusiast.

It is obvious that you are underqualified to make that judgement and have no
knowledge of me or my habits. I am a "LD Enthusiast" in that I highly prize the
material avaliable on certain discs. I may not yet own all those discs but is a
matter of finances, not lack of wanting.
Steve Grauman

[KAMCGANN]

I made the point that I feel it would be silly to move from a 97 to a 99.>

You have never seen either unit in action! How valuable do you think your
"point" could possibly be to anyone in this group?

However, this does not give you the right to forbid me from posting.>

I did not forbid you from posting. That may have been your humiliation
protection circuit advising you to stop posting.

please feel free to ignore my posts or killfile me if you dislike what I

write.>

I prefer to be amused by what and how you write. And for your
information, I am not one of those cowardly killfilers.

Seeing as the 99 is ALSO based on the CLD-D704, I have a pretty damn good idea

what it looks like in action.>

Well, as long as you have a "pretty damn good idea" of what a Pioneer
ELITE CLD-99 looks like in action, I suppose we should value your evaluations.


Kraig

[Steve Grauman]

Post by KAMCGANN
You have never seen either unit in action! How valuable do you think your
"point" could possibly be to anyone in this group?

Here's the point again in case you missed it: Other than it's comb filter the
CLD-99 is internally identicle to the CLD-79 I have had in use for several
months. When output via composite it's picture would be IDENTICLE to the player
I'm using. So in effect, I *have* seen and used a CLD-99, I just have not seen
what it would look like via s-video.
Steve Grauman

[Kevin Hawerchuk]

Kraig,
I noticed Steve mentioned that he considers himself an LD enthusiast
only in the regards that some material is on LD only and, if he could
afford it, he'd purchase it.
Doesn't that put him with you, in regards to your Content First
idealogy?
Maybe, deep down, you guys are closer in your viewpoint of LD than you
realize...
Kevin

[[DK6400] Brian Baldersbæk]

"Kevin Hawerchuk"

Post by Kevin Hawerchuk
Maybe, deep down, you guys are closer in your viewpoint of LD than you
realize...
Kevin

I have a hunch too ;o)
They're acting out like an old couple.

I think they should meet in person.
It would be worth the efforts.
Think of all the things they could talk about.

Therefore. I too smell a hidden union in the air.
They could be best friends !!!

Kindest regards.

[unclejr]

Post by Kevin Hawerchuk
Kraig,
I noticed Steve mentioned that he considers himself an LD enthusiast
only in the regards that some material is on LD only and, if he could
afford it, he'd purchase it.
Doesn't that put him with you, in regards to your Content First
idealogy?
Maybe, deep down, you guys are closer in your viewpoint of LD than you
realize...
Kevin

On a slightly off-topic tangent... Kevin, has Kurtis looked at your
HLD-X9 to make sure that it is up to factory specifications?

-Junior

[Kevin Hawerchuk]

My HLD-X9 was checked carefully in Japan before it was shipped to me.
It's in perfect operating order. No mechanical difficulties, playing
issues, ect.
Just utilize the "ask seller" feature on ebay when you have questions
about items that are up on auction.
Thanks!
Kevin.

[Kurtis Bahr]

Yes;

Kevin is paying me to check it before he sells it. He asked me to ship it
to the buyer if sold in the US.
Kevin is one of my regular customers and has me check a large percentage of
the units he receives.

Kurtis

Post by unclejr

Post by Kevin Hawerchuk
Kraig,
I noticed Steve mentioned that he considers himself an LD enthusiast
only in the regards that some material is on LD only and, if he could
afford it, he'd purchase it.
Doesn't that put him with you, in regards to your Content First
idealogy?
Maybe, deep down, you guys are closer in your viewpoint of LD than you
realize...
Kevin

On a slightly off-topic tangent... Kevin, has Kurtis looked at your
HLD-X9 to make sure that it is up to factory specifications?
-Junior

[unclejr]

Post by Kurtis Bahr
Yes;
Kevin is paying me to check it before he sells it. He asked me to ship it
to the buyer if sold in the US.
Kevin is one of my regular customers and has me check a large percentage of
the units he receives.
Kurtis

Kurtis,

Can the X9 be tweaked to include a gamma turn with a blacked-out
screen for the side breaks? Can it be tweaked any other possible way?

-Junior

[Kurtis Bahr]

I don't know if that is programmed into the control memory. That would have
to be a hidden feature if it was there.

Kurtis

Post by unclejr

Post by Kurtis Bahr
Yes;
Kevin is paying me to check it before he sells it. He asked me to ship it
to the buyer if sold in the US.
Kevin is one of my regular customers and has me check a large percentage of
the units he receives.
Kurtis

Kurtis,
Can the X9 be tweaked to include a gamma turn with a blacked-out
screen for the side breaks? Can it be tweaked any other possible way?
-Junior

[Mattias Karlsson]

Post by unclejr

Post by Kurtis Bahr
Yes;
Kevin is paying me to check it before he sells it. He asked me to ship it
to the buyer if sold in the US.
Kevin is one of my regular customers and has me check a large percentage of
the units he receives.
Kurtis

Kurtis,
Can the X9 be tweaked to include a gamma turn with a blacked-out
screen for the side breaks? Can it be tweaked any other possible way?
-Junior

The HLD-X9 maybe can be tweaked, and I will let you know in a week or
two. My friend have tweaked his HLD-X9 by throwing out or upgrading
over 150 parts in the machine! We will do a A/B test next week with my
HLD-X9 to see the difference. Hopefully it will be closer to the
HLD-X0, or even better, then I would be really happy!

/Mattias

[Kurtis Bahr]

I will be interested to hear the results. I tried the simple replace the
bridge diodes in both the analog and digital supplies with either Hexfred or
GI851's but it didn't help. I wasn't going to put hundreds in upgrading the
electrolytic in the power supplies to Black Gates. So I am interested if
the extra upgrade of parts, better bulk capacitance, and shielding bring the
noise down to the X0 or US
LD-S2/CLD-97 unit levels. I still feel some of the noise in the design of
the board layouts as Pioneer always planned on the user using the DVNR.

Kurtis

Post by Mattias Karlsson

Post by unclejr

Post by Kurtis Bahr
Yes;
Kevin is paying me to check it before he sells it. He asked me to ship it
to the buyer if sold in the US.
Kevin is one of my regular customers and has me check a large percentage of
the units he receives.
Kurtis

Kurtis,
Can the X9 be tweaked to include a gamma turn with a blacked-out
screen for the side breaks? Can it be tweaked any other possible way?
-Junior

The HLD-X9 maybe can be tweaked, and I will let you know in a week or
two. My friend have tweaked his HLD-X9 by throwing out or upgrading
over 150 parts in the machine! We will do a A/B test next week with my
HLD-X9 to see the difference. Hopefully it will be closer to the
HLD-X0, or even better, then I would be really happy!
/Mattias

[Steve Grauman]

Post by Kevin Hawerchuk
Kraig,
I noticed Steve mentioned that he considers himself an LD enthusiast
only in the regards that some material is on LD only and, if he could
afford it, he'd purchase it.
Doesn't that put him with you, in regards to your Content First
idealogy?

My stance on LD is not very much different from Kraig's. The difference is that
Kraig is old enough to have been "in on" Laserdisc as a new format and I am
not. I'm coming in late in the game, "post-mortem" if you will. However he
still accuses me of pandering to the format and it's users, despite a hefty
invesment in several hundred DVD titles, many of which are titles that I would
not bother with on Laserdisc.
Steve Grauman

[KAMCGANN]

My stance on LD is not very much different from Kraig's.>

Steve's use of declarative statements is both preposterous and
uproariously funny. His quoted statement above is no exception.

Firstly, I do not have a stance on LD. The LD format was just an A/V
format and I approached its offerings no different from those of any other
format. The format that offers the highest integrity version of a movie, film,
TV program, etc., gets my support.
Secondly, as Steve has proven time and again, he is too unprincipled,
contradictory, and dull to concoct a cogent stance about anything. He should
just stick to dittoing knowledgeable posters and writing tired unoriginal
recommendations of machines that he has never seen.
Kraig

[KAMCGANN]

Kraig, I noticed Steve mentioned that he considers himself an LD enthusiast

only in the regards that some material is on LD only and, if he could afford
it, he'd purchase it. Doesn't that put him with you, in regards to your Content
First idealogy?>

Dear Kevin
Hello. I did read and chuckle at Steve's response to my challenge
that he was not an LD enthusiast. It is just like Steve to defend his LD
enthusiast status by invoking the non format oriented content first "ideology"
that I have popularized. He is nothing if not a mixed up kid.

Kraig

[Steve Grauman]

Post by KAMCGANN
It is just like Steve to defend his LD
enthusiast status by invoking the non format oriented content first "ideology"
that I have popularized.

You have popularized nothing. My interest in LD has never deviated from what it
was originally and if it had changed, it would have nothing to do with you.
Steve Grauman

[Kurtis Bahr]

I agree with this post from Steve, this is exactly what I have been saying
for years. Until last week I did not know to put the R7G into this category
of a unit to seriously consider.

The real battle between the 97 and 99 is how you feel about background
noise. I modified my 97 to have the background noise default to OFF and you
can really see visually that the unit has lower noise. If you don't mind
what I call a digitized look and use the DVNR and adaptive filtering in the
99 then you would prefer that unit. But now the R7G and S9 have much more
advanced Adaptive filters and more flexible that the ones built-in the
monitors I've seen.

Kurtis

Post by Steve Grauman

Post by KAMCGANN
It is so generous of Steve to share his musings and recommendations about
LD players he has never seen and likely will never see. This is the kind of
stuff that keeps the NG humming along.

It's really a matter of logic, Kraig. The CLD-99 was really a CLD-D704 with a
more advanced comb filter. However, comb-filter technology has progressed since
that model was inroduced and many higher-end television sets offer internal
filtering superior to that of the 99. Therefore, a "serious" enthusiast would
probably run the 99 via composite output if they were using a high-end monitor,
rendering a picture quality identicle to that of the less expensive and
otherwise equally competant 704. If one owned a CLD-97, which has lower noise
levels than than the 704/99 and also owned a high-end monitor, it simply would
not make sense for a CLD-99 to be the next step. The CLD-R7G or LD-S9 would be
neccesary in order for there to be a noticeable difference in performance. If
you reject this logic, you would need steady grounds to do so. Please check
your footing before attempts at wit, which I must inform you is not your strong
suit.
Steve Grauman

[KAMCGANN]

I agree with this post from Steve, this is exactly what I have been saying for

years.>

Yes, it is exactly what you have been saying for years and that is what
Steve regurgitated for "his" post. He has not seen any of the players mentioned
in the thread.

If you don't mind what I call a digitized look and use the DVNR and adaptive

filtering in the 99 then you would prefer that unit.>

I think the 97 has been overrated nearly to the same extent as the 99
has been underrated. I found the 97's video performance to be softer and chroma
noisier than my 99. The 97 needs modification for AC-3 and, as you mentioned,
for its background noise default. The 99 is a very well equipped unit that has
convenient on screen adjustments for its advanced features.

Kraig

[Kevin Hawerchuk]

It's interesting that Kraig mentions the soft picture of the Elite 97.
Personally, I noticed that too, even after I had a new laser pickup
installed in one unit.
I remember once having a Toshiba player, and in the owner's manual, it
recommended pushing a certain button to give a "soft, more pleasing,
picture".
I think Pioneer actually felt that since people were so used to VHS
videotape, that an overly sharp laserdisc picture would be "offputting."
I haven't seen the LD S1 or LD S2, but I've heard that they also have
a soft picture.
Kevin

[Kurtis Bahr]

From the factory the 97 does have a softer picture but internally it has a
frequency response adjustment and you can tweak it to be just about as sharp
as the 99. The 99 does not have these adjustments. I was much happier with
my 97 after I tweaked it.

Kurtis

Post by Kevin Hawerchuk
It's interesting that Kraig mentions the soft picture of the Elite 97.
Personally, I noticed that too, even after I had a new laser pickup
installed in one unit.
I remember once having a Toshiba player, and in the owner's manual, it
recommended pushing a certain button to give a "soft, more pleasing,
picture".
I think Pioneer actually felt that since people were so used to VHS
videotape, that an overly sharp laserdisc picture would be "offputting."
I haven't seen the LD S1 or LD S2, but I've heard that they also have
a soft picture.
Kevin

[Kurtis Bahr]

This is true, for the US releases the CLD-99 was a very good unit. Some
prefer the 99 and other the 97. Personally I would rather spend Elite
prices for a CLD-97 but that is just my preference, others prefer the
CLD-99.

Now that people are making money by selling Japanese players to people in
the US it has to make you rethink what to buy. I would much rather have a
LD-S9 than the CLD-99. These units were just never offered in the US, guess
it was too close to the point where the US movie industry pushed DVD's and
LD player sales slowed down.

Kurtis

Post by KAMCGANN

In fact, I'd ventuire to say that a serious enthusiast would skip the 99 all

togethor, going straight from the CLD-97 to the CLD-R7G.>
It is so generous of Steve to share his musings and recommendations about
LD players he has never seen and likely will never see. This is the kind of
stuff that keeps the NG humming along.
In spite of Steve's numbingly worthless keystrokes and rampant
misspellings, I will weigh in regarding my "friend," the CLD-99. I consider the
Pioneer ELITE CLD-99 to be the Rodney Dangerfield of high end LD players. Even
though it was the best equipped US domestically released player and still
offers far better performance and capability than most other LD players, it
does not get any respect. The 99 is no HLD-X9, but the two 99s that I have
owned served me ably, required neither modification nor service, and earned my
respect.
Kraig

[Chris W.]

Post by Kurtis Bahr
the CLD-99. The S-Video is now the second filter I've seen to sharpen the
picture like the S9/X9 filter, it was better than the 99 and 91. Plus this
one is Adaptive.

'Adaptive'. That means it switches back and forth between 2D and 3D
filtering, right? Doesn't the 99's filter do that too?